Tak: Tell me something about yourself that you haven't shared with anyone else.
Mike: (laughing) Why did you have to start with this question? It's so unfair! One thing I am is a caring person. I do care for individuals. I would do anything for anybody if they needed help. I am a giving person.

Tak: Your book reveals a lot, three years of meetings, but the way you write makes it seem like it was yesterday. Very detailed.
Mike: Because they are very vivid to me. Once I found out who he was, all the times he visited me and came back. You know, one of the things is and I mentioned this in my book.  I may not remember names, but I remember what people like and I knew what Ted Haggard like, as Art.

Tak: You brought down one of the most powerful men in he evangelical movement; did you realize your ‘outing' of Haggard would have such a big impact?
Mike: No.  What I really honestly thought would happen when I decide to go public with my revelations; I thought it would be like a Jimmy Swagger moment. I really thought Ted Haggard would apologize, admit it and apologize. You know, ask for forgiveness and then move on in his church. I had no idea that it was going to turn out the way it did.  I really, honestly did not understand or would begin to know that it would have a national impact. People were telling me I had influence on the elections, nationwide.  That's not what I was going for, by any means.

Tak: Did it surprise you that most of Hagard's friends in the Christian faith turned their back on him after you revealed his secret?
Mike: Yes and I think they should be ashamed of themselves for that. Even James Dobson, at first, said he was going to help out with the restoration or the counseling   After three days said he was too busy.  A friend is a friend is a friend, good or bad, I think they should have stuck with him.

Tak: You are still called a liar to this day.
Mike: If people want to look at me as a liar, you look at my credibility against Ted Haggard's at that moment in time, I think I am the one that comes out telling the truth.?

Tak: You say, "Escorting is a thankless Job." Why?
Mike: It's because it's there for that moment. It's not like they are going to have fond memories of you when they leave.  Again, what people need to understand, escorting doesn't always involve sex.  It involved a lot of counseling it involved a lot of emotions.  With Ted Haggard it was both, emotions on his part and sex. 

Tak: You do get offended when people call you a prostitute. You say there is a difference between prostitution and an escort. For people at home, they still see you as someone who has been paid to have sex.
Mike: Right.

Tak: How do you justify the difference? 
Mike: First of all, I think we are (all) prostitutes to some degree.  We all get paid for something, mine happened to be sex and unfortunately, through time, it's just a word people can relate too.  They don't understand what escort means, so prostitution is a much more recognizable word.  To me, prostitution is strictly sex, money for sex. That's it.  Usually, you might see somebody walking the streets who would be a prostitute.  Mine, again, involved so much more.  I literally had men dying in my arms; I had men crying in my arms through confusion, depression, not knowing where their life was leading too.  I think I was much more than a prostitute.

Tak: When Haggard first came to you as Art was he hesitant about the sex?
Mike: Yeah, he was shy at first and hesitant but it didn't stop him.  He was hesitant. Again, where it really started to change is when the meth started happening.

Tak: That was a year into your relationship?
Mike: That's correct.

Tak: Is that when he became more open to the gay sex?
Mike: More adventurous, if you want use the word "kinky," you know that would apply.

Tak: Let's talk about the meth, because when he began using the meth, do you think it helped him sexually or do you think it was about the high?
Mike: Well, it lowered his inhibitions, so it was a combination of all of it.  His inhibitions were down and he got more curious about things. The porn he was watching got more hardcore.

Tak: Did you ever worry about this illegal drug in your home?
Mike: It didn't bother me at all, one thing I have never ever denied is that I have tired drugs and used drugs before. I am not a drug addict, I am not a drug dealer but no, it didn't bother me. I actually was more afraid that he would get caught on the road driving his motorcycle or something high or with drugs on him.

Tak: How did you get into this profession, you explained a little about it in the book.  It's not something that happens overnight, but it did for you.
Mike: (laughing) I didn't go to school or anything for it. It did happen overnight.  I was just amazed when I was young and hanging out at a bar that men were willing to pay me for sex.  I was presented that opportunity at a very early age and it seemed to happen quite often, that's kind of how I got into it.  But people have to also know that I didn't do escorting services s a full time profession.  I did it kind of part time. I had corporate jobs.  I owned a gym, I owned a greeting card shop, and I owned a bar.  So people need to know that's not all I did, escorting. It was just something where I found out I could get extra money and it was cash.

Tak: Let's talk about after high school, because earlier in your life you had a metal door fall on you and knock you unconscious.
Mike: Yes

Tak: You also had a baseball bat to the head?
Mike: Two baseball bats

Tak: Two baseball bats to the head and that caused some health problems for you? How did that affect your adult life, in going to college?
Mike: It was very difficult for me to take tests. I always seemed to struggle. I wanted to learn, but see I suffer from migraines so much, literally everyday of my life I have some sort of headache, everyday. When migraines hit, you know, that's a big whammy, so I do struggle that way and I think that having some accidents to my head, it was a cause of all headaches.

Tak: You say, "What I provide for men, like Art, had little to do with sex."  You claim it's about intimacy.  Do you think Haggard's whole problem was about intimacy?
Mike: I think he wanted intimacy with a man. One of the things with me is I never got emotionally attached to my clients.  Did I have feeling for them? Yes, because I felt sorry for so many of them. And I could see, when I knew him as Art, I could see he had issues. I could see guilt and shame on his face, but I think he really wanted to be with a man.

Tak: You do think Haggard is gay then?
Mike: I do.

Tak:  You said several times, "There was a deep-seated pain for Haggard?"  As your relations built over the three years, did you ever ask him about it?
Mike: No, I didn't ask my clients about any of those issues. 80% of my clients were married men, so I knew they were struggling in some aspects. Some opened up to me and wouldn't. I would never pry to get information out of them.

Tak: Did he ever open up to you about those intimacy issues?
Mike: No, the only thing he told me about his personal life was that he was married and had kids, but he started asking questions about me. I think he was trying to find out if there were any other men that were seeing me or were in similar circumstances.

Tak: This book also talks about your personal life. One part, about your brother and how he physically abused you growing up. How do you think this affected your life?
Mike: Well I had low self-esteem growing up and I hated myself. I was afraid.  It was like living with a bully in the house. When I got to high school, the first thing I heard was oh, he's your brother, we saw him beat up people for no reason and they would look down on me. It was a very tough for me.  

Tak: Do you think your brother's actions against you, affected your life to what you're doing today?
Mike: Possibly, one of the things that came out of my older brother beating me was I got into body building and as a result of bodybuilding I started getting attention from men. So, in a round about way it did affect my life where I am at today.

Tak: You talk about your mother, nanny and great-grandmother. One part, you talk about how your great grandmother also oversaw women of the night that seems a little ironic?
Mike: (laughing) Yes.  My friends have said you kept it in the family. So yeah that was in Central City.

Tak: How important were those three women in your life?
Mike: Well, my great-grandmother, she raised my when I was younger because my mom and dad were both working, so she took care of me. My fondest memories were baking with her and watching Laurence Welk as a young child. My grandmother, she was very close to her daughter, which is my mom. They were always very close, so my grandmother was always around the house all the time. And I don't know, I always connected with the women in my life and they always wanted to be around me.  My mom, who always wanted a girl, never had a girl and the joke between my mom and I was, "I am the daughter she always wanted."  My mom was such a wonderful person and I lost her to a horrible disease, it took such a big chunk out of my life I will never be the same and I miss her so much she is my best friend.

Tak: Tell people how important your mom was to you, because at one point you dropped everything, cancelled all of your clients and flew out to Las Vegas to be with them and one thing you really wanted was for your mom to enjoy life?
Mike: My mom gave so much, but asked for so little in return.  I was by my mom's side when she died and she was crying all the time just lying there.  She didn't know what was going on and it was so hard because I wanted to tell her that she was dying but I didn't have the heart and when I couldn't take it any more and when I told her she was dying, she never cried again. But to her last breath, she was still talking to me, she didn't want to go.  She was only 69 and she loved life and she loved her grandchildren and she simply didn't have enough time with her grandchildren.

Tak: One thing in this book, you talk about touch and how important touch is for man.  It's an important necessity and you realized that during your mother's illness.
Mike: I think it's such a shame that people don't touch more.  It's when I see people back off because they are being touched I just feel like "you don't know what you're missing."  You know, the latest stats I saw were like only 18 percent of adults have ever actually had a massage before and it's really a shame. I mean it's so therapeutic and helpful. I mean my mom, when she was lying there very sick, I would lay there massaging her scalp for her and her hands and I could see peace on her face when I was doing that, so for people who are really sick, touch is really important.

Tak: During your mother's illness, you were about to figure out who Haggard was; you kind of had an idea that he was tied with some church organization. How did that play in exposing Haggard?
Mike: You know, my mom passed away in January ‘06 and April ‘06 is when I found out who Ted Haggard was, or who Art was.  I was still reeling from my mom's death and I was having a hard time working, I was so depressed, I was so out of it and then to have the Haggard thing fall into my lap within a matter of months it was like a double whammy.  But my mom, who was my best friend, she taught me to be strong and I feel that my mom ultimately said, "do it Mike, do it."  

Tak: When you found out who Haggard was, you saw him on TV, did some research on him, you connected the dots You seemed a little bit more mad at Haggard that he didn't console you about your mother's death?  Here is a man of the cloth and you told him your mother had passed away and it was "I am sorry," and that was it. Were you mad at him about that?
Mike: No, because he didn't know I knew who he was, I mean, I am just speaking in retrospect. He knew my mom died, when I am thinking about what he did it's like "because I didn't know who he was at the time," so that is why I am speaking in retrospect: that he should have been more consoling to me. Now that I knew who he was, yeah. When I look back, I am surprised he wasn't more sympathetic and consoling to me.

Tak:  Obviously the political role was your main reason, but the consoling?
Mike: No, it had nothing to do with it.  It's just when I look back on things I just find that kind of odd being, that's what he was doing.  In that, I didn't see any of that when my mom died.

Tak: Another one of your clients was also a clergy member and he helped you to begin to pray? Mike: He was actually praying for me. I am confused if you ask me if I pray?

Tak: Yes, you did pray, you were at the casino one time with your ill mother.
Mike: Yes, yes.  I still pray today and I prayed a lot more when my mom was sick and that is when I started to get more into prayer and faith. I am very spiritual, I always have been.  Do I know who I am praying to? I really don't.  I just know I am praying to the universe somewhere and someone out there is listening.  I have a problem with organized religion. I am spiritual. So I do pray.

Tak: In 2005, you began to think escorting is no longer for me anymore?
Mike: I was tired of it

Tak: Why?
Mike: I just got burned out on it, I was getting older, you know fortunately one of the worst things to come out of this story was I was 49 years old, (laughing) but I was getting older and I was getting into more legitimate massage actually. I was training lots of personal, training clients and fitness and I was doing a lot more modeling for the school and stuff, so I wanted to get out of it. I was telling my clients that I had that I was getting out of it and ironically, Ted Haggard was the one person who begged me to keep him on and I did.

Tak: Do you think he was falling in love with you?
Mike: Possibly, I knew he was infatuated with me at the very least and that always made me uncomfortable.  I didn't always like my clients falling for me, but I saw it numerous times.

Tak: What is one thing you remember about Ted Haggard?
Mike: Well, the one thing is what most people remember is his smile. I mean, no matter what, he always had a smile on his face.  Now, I could tell you each time our sessions ended I could see sadness and guilt and shame on his face.  I could just see that, I got pretty good about reading people faces.  He was so excited when he would see me and when he had to leave, when time was over, he got out of there pretty quickly.

Tak: As the story is about to break, you decided to call Ted Haggard, you called New Life Church several times and tried to get in touch with him.
Mike: On that day

Tak: Right, on that day and you finally got his cell phone number. What were you going to say to him?
Mike: I don't know, it was just so weird, I just needed to see if he wanted to talk to me. So I did call him and after numerous tries they did give me his cell phone number. I didn't tell her who I was, but I just said, "Ted, or Art, whatever you want to go by, this is Mike, uhmm the press is here we need to talk."  And if he would have said ‘could we meet somewhere' and talked or something like that, I might have done that. You have to understand, I was doing the best I could in that moment in time. I asked no one for help, I did this solely by myself and was maybe questioning myself.  I was coming to that final point when it was all breaking.  Perhaps, I don't know, it was just impulse that I tried to get a hold of him.  I know some people are going to say, "well if you tried that, why didn't you try earlier, trying to get a hold of him," and I can't answer that.  I don't know, I was just doing the best I could.

Tak: If you could go back and do one thing differently, what would it be?
Mike: I think I would have consulted some people before I did what I did. Again, I had no idea it was going to turn out the way it did. I feel horrible it did turn out the way it did. I simply wanted to expose this man.  I didn't want to tear his whole empire down, that was not my intention.  The part that made it difficult for me, for four months I agonized over, that he had a wife and kids, (and) that is what made me the most sick. I hated that, but I didn't know it was going to turn out the way it did. So, I probably would have sought some help out, some counseling instead of doing it myself.

Tak: You have not talked to Ted Haggard since?
Mike: I have not

Tak: Do you want to?
Mike: When ever he's ready, I am always willing to talk

Tak: What do you think you'll say to him?
Mike: What would I say to him, what I would say to him is Ted this is a golden opportunity work with the gay community and the church, bring them in and make it inclusive, quite dividing people, this is wrong. Because what is sad about this whole this is, Ted haggard is a victim of his own beliefs, that you should feel guilty, shame for being gay and then you know what happens. You get people that have to sneak around like Ted Haggard did and this is what the church is producing and this is wrong. We need to talk about it, now and lets come together. Some happy medium somewhere along the line, but when you say, "I am going to hell," that makes the gay community mad.  How's there ever going to be any consoling?  It's just wrong we need to talk.

Tak:  A gay man wrote, "I see Mike Jones just as bad as a religious organization that has ever damned my lifestyle.  He is no better.  He did not go public to help the gay community.  He went public to help his fame and his wallet.  Would any of us have wanted to be 'outed' this way?"
Mike:  First of all, I could have blackballed Ted Haggard. I could be on that church's payroll right now if I wanted to, so I didn't do it for the money.  That is ridiculous. If I did it for money, I would (have) had a book deal already signed before.  I would have had an agent, I would have had a publicist, I would have been prepared. That is not what I was doing; I was just exposing the hypocrisy for what he was saying against the gay community. I never claimed ever to speak for the gay community, I was speaking for mike Jones and I am sorry that gentleman, I guess it was a gentleman feels that way, but I would just say to him what have you done to make a difference in this world and that it's not easy to go outside the box.

Tak: Life has changed for you.  You don't live in that apartment anymore.  Financially, you're strapped. You've lost your clients.  Where are you at in life?
Mike: I have to say, I am a little bit lost.  I don't know where my life is headed. You know, I've lived in Denver all of my life, but there has been a lot of resentment toward me in Denver, So I don't know, I don't know where I go from her It's really difficult for me, right now I am really focused on this book and the book tour. I am open to suggestions.

Tak: What is next for you?  Is there a movie deal, maybe another book?
Mike: I know people think I have this movie deal signed and delivered, I've yet to hear anything about it. There have been times where there's been talk, but talk is cheap.

Tak: Maybe another book?
Mike: It's interesting (that) you've asked about the book because I've had a lot of people who find out that I am 50 now, and I am in pretty good shape for 50 and people are saying, "you need to write a book about what it's like to stay in shape at 50 years old because a lot of men simply give up and they feel like, uuh 50, I'm over the hill.  Who cares anymore?  But I am living proof that at 50 you still can look good.

Tak: You actually voted for George Bush in the last election?
Mike: I am a registered Democrat, but in the last election I did vote for George Bush.  Now I outted Ted Haggard because he was a hypocrite, not because he was republican or a democrat, that had nothing to do with it. I am my own person; I am not going to vote straight ticket just because people think I should. I vote for who I think is the best at that time.

Tak: Anything else you would like to add?
Mike: I did the best that I could at that moment at time. I wasn't trying to do it for money or fame or anything else whatever has happened to me, has happened. If people think this has been a glorious time for me and that there were parties every night or that I am the toast of the town, it's far from that. I sit at home almost every other night, so it's not what people might think it is. I simply made a point and I made a point and I have to face the consequences also.

Tak: Do you think your life has taken a turn for the worst?
Mike:  I don't want to say for the worst, but I think it, certainly.  I am getting it from all sides.  Have I received praise?  Yes.  Have people called me a hero?  Yes.  It's not that I haven't had support; I am just amazed at how many people have come down hard on me in a negative way.  All I can say is, until you can be in my shoes, and be in (the) position I was in with Ted Haggard; I did the best I could.